tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post4638461987022116646..comments2024-01-04T17:49:08.211-05:00Comments on One World, One Mind, One Heart: Dominate Modes of Discourse, Part IIGary Stamperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-12384118917364518222007-02-03T11:29:00.000-05:002007-02-03T11:29:00.000-05:00Hi Gary, hope I can still offer a comment if I'm f...Hi Gary, hope I can still offer a comment if I'm from a place outside the Integral fold. I've been following the discussion with a lot of interest. It can be easy to "type" people, but it's important I think to continue to be open to wisdom of the deepest kind that can come from the most unexpected sources. You never know who your next best teacher will be. with love.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-74118423627293310522007-02-02T14:28:00.000-05:002007-02-02T14:28:00.000-05:00Hi, all!
This is a fascinating topic. Gary, your...Hi, all!<br /><br />This is a fascinating topic. Gary, your response makes tons of sense. Thanks for your post, for offering more clarity and thought-provocation! (Here in Denver, we joked, "Ack, looks like we've been Stampered!" ha ha!) I hope to explore this debate more at our March meeting. <br /><br />Simon, your first paragraph outlines an important distinction.<br /><br />Another distinction I'd like to highlight - perhaps obvious, but a point Doug alludes to - is the one between specific comments an individual makes and the individual, him/herself. Doug writes, "If we want to understand each other better as individuals and therefore understand ourselves better, the last thing we need to do is to color-type each other. It simply misses too much. It can give us the illusion that we understand each other when in fact it's just as likely that we're wearing colored glasses that justify our preconceptions." There's wisdom here, too. It's one thing to note a comment coming from, e.g., a knee-jerk amber worldview so that we can skillfully respond. It's one thing to have a basic idea of where voices tend to come from at our meetings. It's another to hear someone announce, e.g.,"God sent me and my church group to England!" and immediately form an inflexible, whole picture of who and what that person is. The second, as Doug points out, is probably not very helpful and/or skillful. I've seen that happen - in myself, too - pretty often. <br /><br />Let me just add... in the jingle, jangle morning I'll come followin' you...crshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13895212674926317942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-66974794132003209872007-01-31T00:46:00.000-05:002007-01-31T00:46:00.000-05:00Ah, Simon....lol!!! with joy and love!Ah, Simon....lol!!! with joy and love!Gary Stamperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-24563854703170556832007-01-31T00:11:00.000-05:002007-01-31T00:11:00.000-05:00Hi Folks,
With another small twist of the kaleid...Hi Folks,<br /> With another small twist of the kaleidoscope: It might be helpful to distinguish those first tier conversations in which a person is only putting an unalloyed first tier perspective with those in which the person is putting that perspective AND, explicitly or implicitly, claiming that it is a ... sorry ... THE privileged perspective. Roughly speaking, IMO, the first requires no integral intervention, the second may do.<br /><br />Another interesting first tier power play, usually unconscious (said he speak from chagrined experience) is unacknowledged reification. Tim almost killed me last week for earnestly participating in an exchange the featured the refrain "No, no, no! Science is...". Cringe! :-)<br /><br />My (obvious) point is that in an integral group, we are (presumably and in part) engaged in the exercise of learning how to transcend this stuff (and include where appropriate).<br /><br /> ...I'm not sleepy and there ain't no place I'm going to...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-67943246926754289432007-01-30T00:32:00.000-05:002007-01-30T00:32:00.000-05:00Ah, Tom, my friend....your comments (and in this c...Ah, Tom, my friend....your comments (and in this case, input to the blog) are always informative and wise. Hey, Mr. Tambouri man, play a song for me......Gary Stamperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-5446749369753043682007-01-29T22:34:00.000-05:002007-01-29T22:34:00.000-05:00Thank you Gary! I must say that those who have an ...Thank you Gary! I must say that those who have an aversion to judgement and altitudenism seem to be involved in a self performative contradiction. Making the judgement that one should not judge. We can not avoid making judgements if we are involved with time and space and thinking and doing. We need to assess what space people are coming from (translatively or transformatively) know how to talk (dominate means of discourse) with them. When certain parties seem to have an aversion to "judgement" and "altitudenism" (verticality) that is a clue to me to use skillful means with them and to use horizontal language such as later or earlier (as Terri O'Fallon mentioned to us re Susanne Cook-Greuters usage of developmental language). I try to talk their language but if they are insistant on making my hypercube Being fit into their cube worldview I'll have to leave the conversation (just like I did with my monistic Jehovah's Witness ex-wife who insisted that I live in her square worldview or hit the road (my way or the highway). I'm on the highway! =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com