tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post9064060299761181197..comments2024-01-04T17:49:08.211-05:00Comments on One World, One Mind, One Heart: What's the Matter with Men?Gary Stamperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-55869570556226580212010-10-15T01:00:41.549-04:002010-10-15T01:00:41.549-04:00Several comments here Gary and Bob.
Almost all of...Several comments here Gary and Bob.<br /><br />Almost all of the four archetypes with which men are supposedly identifying have a certain dominating streak. King, warrior and magician dominate the world, the chaos of strife and knowledge and skill, respectively. The lover seems to me somewhat indolent and sybaritic. It would be worthwhile to address the questions raised in the "Atlantic" article "The end of men" which sees the feminine gifts of adaptation and participation in systems as more desirable and productive in today's world. Men espousing the 4 archetypes - what do they have to offer that competes with that or complements it?<br /><br />Furthermore, the David Deida analogies, like the one of river banks giving boundaries to the flow, are just metaphors. I do not see how they arise in the context of the 4 archetypes. The one about the captain of the boat on the ocean is pretty close to the warrior archetype. It would be worthwhile to trace them back to these roots.<br /><br />If you want to argue for balancing the 4 archetypes you need to address the situation where for the fulfillment of some individuals it may be better to focus on one archetypical model at a time or maybe just develop in only one way throughout life. This seems to be the case with highly successful people - people who have given great gifts to the world while having a fulfilling even though unbalanced life. Take great artists or scientists as an example.<br /><br />The answer about being the masculine being to the feminine the "Spirit to the Soul" is intriguing. Could we express the answer in less mystical terms?Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-70299457502563818462010-10-08T09:31:50.148-04:002010-10-08T09:31:50.148-04:00Great comment, Bob, thank you! We can learn so muc...Great comment, Bob, thank you! We can learn so much from each other. I especially like your point about "masculine, not male"...The masculine bank (I spelled "band" in the removed post...) that holds the feminine river can be found in men and women, and that's part of the importance of integrating both into our being.Gary Stamperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-12607802296862094912010-10-08T09:30:17.550-04:002010-10-08T09:30:17.550-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Gary Stamperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13750503453297842748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20551805.post-84857592971155209652010-10-04T12:34:41.537-04:002010-10-04T12:34:41.537-04:00Wow, great discussion! There's a lot here - wa...Wow, great discussion! There's a lot here - way more than I'm qualified to respond to. But I'll take a shot at a couple points. <br />Echoing your point, Gary, there are many initiations in a man's life. Most of them unintended and often having undesired effects. Ritualized and intentional initiation is entirely more meaningful and sacred. Ritual initiation by tribal elders (as in a Bar Mitzvah) is public affirmation that a boy has come of age. It's a sacred event where the boy is expected to realize that it's time to put away the toys of boyhood and adopt the responsibilities of manhood - protecting, defending and providing for the welfare of the tribe, family, employer, self. <br />Significant as it is, the Bar Mitzvah is a watered-down form of initiation in our society. With more classic rites of passage, elders facilitate processes where the boy is energetically killed and the man is energetically acknowledged by peers, the wise ones, and the nominal and spiritual leaders. <br /><br />Any substitute for ritual initiation inadequately informs the male that his life roles and responsibilities have forevermore shifted. That the boy is now a man.<br /><br />With regard to the uniquely masculine contribution to humanity. (Note masculine here not "male".)<br />I love Deida's analogies. The captain at the helm of the tiny little boat (masculine) sandwiched between the massive (feminine) ocean and sky. Navigating with intention to a destination (masculine mission). One moment the sky and seas are balmy, loving, friendly. In the next, the sky turns black and huge waves threaten to sink the craft and drown the skipper. The masculine keeps his attention on the mission, and waits for the skies to clear as they always do. He welcomes death if it comes in the course of pursuing his purpose. The masculine - whether embodied by men or women - is mission driven; and is responsible for all the deeds and decisions that lead to evolution of society. The feminine is responsible to give life to that mission - literally, though bearing the male child, and with the nurturing, loving, unlimited energy of the feminine. <br /><br />And Deida's other great analogy - the never-ending flow of the river (feminine) is contained within its banks (masculine). Until it rises up in devastating flooding, destroying all in its path - except the river banks. When the river recedes, the banks are still there. The masculine's contribution is to ever provide guidance to the incredible power of the feminine energy... hold space for it to be as gentle or as devastating as it will. <br /><br />Energy without direction is chaotic and unfocused. The feminine supplies the energy; the masculine contributes direction.Bob Wuesthttp://www.bobwuest.comnoreply@blogger.com